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13 March 2008 @ 01:00 pm
Why I'm not getting the HPV vaccine, part 1.  
I became concerned about the HPV vaccine when I saw that a number of states were mandating that it be required for girls in public schools. As a sexually active young woman, I am at pretty high risk for contracting HPV, but I have chosen not to receive the vaccine, because I am skeptical that the legislation being passed regarding it is being done so unscrupulously and untransparently. I'm disheartened that most public opposition to this vaccine seems to be from people who are concerned about vaccinating young girls for an STI - not from people like me, who look askance on legislators who are mandating compulsory vaccinations after receiving substantial monetary donations from pharmaceutical companies, and who feel that the attention given to this vaccine obscures the real issues about women's reproductive health. The HPV vaccine is not a substitute for routine healthcare, and I feel that the legislative support it has been receiving diverts funds that could be better used to provide pap smears for low-income women.

I did most of this research when Gardasil was the only vaccine available. Part 2 will explore the ties between pharmaceutical companies and the politicians pushing for compulsory vaccination. Part 3 will explain my concerns about this vaccine's testing method and potential health risks.

SOME FACTS ABOUT CERVICAL CANCER:
Cervical cancer was once one of the leading causes of cancer death in women. This is no longer the case. The American Cancer Society estimated that about 3,600 women would die of cervical cancer in 2007.

SOME FACTS ABOUT HPV:
HPV is a common STI (the Journal of the American Medical Association estimates that over 1 in 4 women has it). Despite this high incidence, it's estimated that 90% of HPV infections are cleared by the infected person's immune system within 2 years. A number of people develop an immunity to the virus. There are several types of HPV. Two - types 16 and 18 - are responsible for about 70% of cervical cancer cases.

WHAT THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES WANT YOU TO THINK:
"This vaccine lowers the chance of you getting cervical cancer! Which is a really common cancer!" The HPV vaccine is being billed as a preventative measure for cervical cancer - NOT for HPV itself. Why? Because HPV is essentially harmless - except for those two pesky strains that can give you cervical cancer. (Well, HPV can give you genital warts, too - but you don't see ads telling you you should be vaccinated for genital warts, do you? That's because they're playing up the "cervical cancer" aspect of it to quiet the folks who are crying foul at vaccinating kids for an STD. The pharmaceutical companies have ZERO chance of getting compulsory vaccinations for something that prevents genital warts. I would get vaccinated for the genital warts aspect alone, because that shit is gross, I have a lot of sex, and if it makes me 90% immune to genital warts, I'm ALL FOR IT. But I cannot in good conscience support a company that's marketing this as a cervical cancer vaccine.)

SOMETHING YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW ABOUT HPV TYPES 16 AND 18:
Okay. I just told you that over a quarter of the US population has HPV, making it possibly the most common STI (this has been in the news a lot, and perhaps prompted renewed interest in the vaccine). Good idea to vaccinate against something that causes cancer, right? Do you know what percentage of folks with HPV have one of the types that causes cancer?
3.5%.
Now, it's been awhile since I've taken math - but does it really make sense to give shots to prevent something that 3.5% of 25% of the population has? What does that take that percentage down to? Do you divide 3.5 by 4? Statistically, the chances of contracting one of those two types of HPV are VERY LOW. And in any event, types 16 and 18 are only responsible for 70% of cervical cancer cases.

PAP SMEARS ARE AWESOME:
Another thing I feel it's important that women know: the mortality rate from cervical cancer is declining at a rate of 4% per year. That's because of the advent of the pap smear test, which is CRUCIAL to early detection. The pap smear has made it possible for cervical cancer to be nipped in the bud, as it were. When the cancer is found at these early stages, the relative five-year survival rate is 92% - that's 12% higher than the 80% survival rate for people affected by one of the other 8 cancers that can be detected early.

THIS VACCINE IS EXPENSIVE:
Last I checked, Gardasil (Merck Inc.'s vaccine) cost $360. A pap smear costs $30. There are subsidies being used to give people Gardasil. This money would be better used to provide free or reduced-cost pap smears to women who otherwise would not have the means to receive them. If Merck really gave a shit about wiping out that kind of cancer, couldn't they have spent the millions they poured into developing this drug, the hundreds of thousands they spent bribing legislators to push through mandatory vaccination bills, and the thousands they doubtless spent on the ad campaign to convince people that this vaccine will reduce the incidence of cervical cancer, on cervical cancer awareness or screening efforts?

THE ANSWER IN PART 2.
 
 
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A Bark must have a code: Brain in a Jar[info]chocolatebark on March 13th, 2008 08:47 pm (UTC)
(Well, HPV can give you genital warts, too - but you don't see ads telling you you should be vaccinated for genital warts, do you? That's because they're playing up the "cervical cancer" aspect of it to quiet the folks who are crying foul at vaccinating kids for an STD. The pharmaceutical companies have ZERO chance of getting compulsory vaccinations for something that prevents genital warts. I would get vaccinated for the genital warts aspect alone, because that shit is gross, I have a lot of sex, and if it makes me 90% immune to genital warts, I'm ALL FOR IT. But I cannot in good conscience support a company that's marketing this as a cervical cancer vaccine.)

This bit puzzles me: Do that mean that if they changed how it was marketed, you'd be more apt to consider getting a shot of Gardasil?
the battlefield where the moon says i love you[info]littlestink on March 13th, 2008 09:09 pm (UTC)
fixed tag
jumping in to clarify: genital warts are the warning sign of SEVERAL cancers, some not gender specific (hey ass cancer!!), as well as penis and vulva cancers (source). so, hpv is bad the dames, but also for the guys. where is the male hpv vaccination?? i would be considerably more confident in a vaccination if i didn't feel like such a guinea pig.
A Bark must have a code: Belial[info]chocolatebark on March 13th, 2008 09:12 pm (UTC)
Re: fixed tag
from what I understood, men could be vaccinated as well, but for whatever reason, most of the 'getting the shot in high school' discussion has focused around female students rather than males.

Yes, I don't want ass-cancer, neither.
K.[info]girlracer on March 13th, 2008 09:32 pm (UTC)
Re: fixed tag
it's focused around females because pharmaceutical companies are exploiting people's fear of cancer
K.[info]girlracer on March 13th, 2008 09:33 pm (UTC)
and I mean
cervical cancer, because it's seen as more common and they're still riding the wave from it being a really dangerous thing, instead of acknowledging that it's nowhere NEAR as big a risk as it was
A Bark must have a code: Brain in a Jar[info]chocolatebark on March 13th, 2008 09:44 pm (UTC)
Re: fixed tag
?
That doesn't make sense to me--if they were exploiting people's fear of cancer wouldn't they argue that it could prevent the strains that cause non-female specific cancer, too?

I mean, why just limit it to mandatory vaccination for 50% of the population when you can get 100%?
K.[info]girlracer on March 13th, 2008 09:53 pm (UTC)
Re: fixed tag
responded to this in comment below
you know who[info]birds_hum on March 14th, 2008 12:28 am (UTC)
Re: fixed tag
that's a good point. i want to go read more about this now.
Katie T[info]trusting_fool on March 13th, 2008 11:23 pm (UTC)
Re: fixed tag
My understanding is that there hasn't been enough testing to show whether or not it is effective in men.
The Ambidextrous Chicken-Monkey's Spaghetti Feed[info]maria_sputnik on March 13th, 2008 11:13 pm (UTC)
maybe not
genital warts are the warning sign of SEVERAL cancers, some not gender specific (hey ass cancer!!), as well as penis and vulva cancers

My understanding is that this is not true. There are several strains of HPV. Not all of them cause genital warts. And the strains which cause genital warts are not the same strains which cause cervical cancer.

"HPV and Cervical Cancer
Cervical cancer is the second most common type of cancer to affect women. Infection with HPV has been found to be the leading cause of cervical cancer. However, not all strains of the HPV virus are associated with cervical cancer. Those that lead to genital warts are rarely linked with this type of cancer."

Maybe it's different for penis, vulva, and ass cancer, but I wonder...?
you know who[info]birds_hum on March 14th, 2008 12:29 am (UTC)
Re: fixed tag
and prostate cancer.
Alex(andra)[info]eruv on March 13th, 2008 08:57 pm (UTC)
does it really make sense to give shots to prevent something that 3.5% of 25% of the population has?

YES (if the something causes cancer). I would mos def pay $360 to lessen my chances of getting cancer. Do you know how much cancer meds cost? $360 is a drop in the fucking bucket.

I don't think it should be compulsory, though.
K.[info]girlracer on March 13th, 2008 09:31 pm (UTC)
I'd consider it, but I have no interest in subsidizing (directly or indirectly) a company with the kind of shady political stuff Merck is doing.

A future post covers why this vaccine might actually be super dangerous, and my concerns about the tests done for it. News sources are reporting that 8 people have died as complications of Gardasil (blood clots, as far as I can tell). I think that's super fucked up. This vaccine needs more testing, and Merck is bribing lawmakers to make it mandatory and provide subsidies for it, which is bullshit.

Haven't done as much research on glaxosmithkline but I intend to
you know who[info]birds_hum on March 14th, 2008 12:26 am (UTC)
Something that is in the population 3.5%-25% NOW that is a spreading virus (and a very QUICKLY spreading virus) is actually a large number, because most of all, it's a GROWING number.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/297/8/813

I wish I could find an article to cite, but I will say this: I showed symptoms of HPV in 2001, when it still seemed 'new' ish, to the common sexually active person. The docs didn't really know much about it back then (honestly) and didn't even talk to me about cervical cancer. I had to get paps every 6 months until suddenly it disappeared. No more abnormal paps. As far as any new doc who sees me now is concerned, it's as if I don't have it at all. It's a slippery virus, and I think of all the women and young women especially who may not be getting to a gynie every 6 months and therefore may miss the fact that they have it and are transmitting it... If I could afford it, I'd get the DNA test done, but maybe some day... Anyway, it wasn't until 2004 that my gynie had a lot more information and by then, the stats regarding how many women were likely to be infected in the U.S. had increased significantly from the stats I had received in 2001 (estimates provided to docs, then provided to me).
the battlefield where the moon says i love you: almost[info]littlestink on March 13th, 2008 08:59 pm (UTC)
right on. i asked my doctor about getting the shot when i was getting my most recent pap. my doc and i both share a number of the same concerns: the limited research on the vaccine's effectiveness and the fact that it's still only in the testing stage for men (in canada, at least). men and women can both get hpv, but we can't have the same vaccine?

instead, on my doc's advice, i got the hpv dna test, which uses the same cells sampled from my cervix as those taken during the pap. it came back as negative, and since i'm in a monogamous relationship, odds are in my favour that cervical cancer's not really a risk for me (as long as the monogamy and this relationship stay on course). in fact, seems i should be more afraid of breast cancer? but where's that vaccine??

oh, and five provinces in canada are covering the full cost of the vaccine under our provincial health plans. although, apparently not my province? unless you are a a grade 8 girl???? this is confusing.
Mary Queen of Scots: [MA] Toxic.[info]sataldajamahel on March 13th, 2008 09:06 pm (UTC)
Okay, so, I have HPV. Not the cervical cancer causing kind, but the kind that gives you little bumps on your cervix that bleed like crazy every time you get too rough in bed. Which freeking SUCKS. I really wish now that I had gotten the vaccine, and I think that anyone who's sexually active and doesn't want to go through that should get it too, regardless of what our fucked up government says.
K.[info]girlracer on March 13th, 2008 09:31 pm (UTC)
link to more information about this type of hpv plz
you know who[info]birds_hum on March 14th, 2008 12:16 am (UTC)
It is my understanding that HPV doesn't 'cause' cervical cancer but that it increases the risk for it and CAN lead to it. Every strand of it.

People who are sexually active already cannot get the vaccine. It is too likely that they've already been exposed to it and are carrying it (even if it doesn't yet show up).
Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.: squid skies[info]splatterhouse on March 13th, 2008 09:14 pm (UTC)
Regardless of how they dress it up - and let's face it, the cancer move is pretty necessary in the morally uptight climate we currently live in - the fact that the vaccine will prevent girls from potentially contracting a very common STD alone is reason enough; unfortunately, you can't market it that way, as every parent believes their precious would never do the naughties and every idiot conservative believes it would encourage kids to have sex.
K.[info]girlracer on March 13th, 2008 09:27 pm (UTC)
in my book, the fact that 90% of HPV infections get passed by the immune system naturally is a pretty good indication that it's not really that dangerous as an STI.

I'm fucking terrified of AIDS. you know it costs over $250 million, on average, to develop a vaccine? I'd rather that money be invested in figuring out HIV, but you know why it's spent on this, instead?

because they can buy lawmakers into passing legislation making this compulsory for 50% of the US population and turn a $4 billion+ profit on this vaccine every fucking year.
Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.[info]splatterhouse on March 13th, 2008 09:47 pm (UTC)
I'm not talking about it being terrifying, just socially stigmatizing.

There is definitely a problem with dragging feet on AIDS research, but demonizing another vaccine which has the potential to help people isn't going to solve the issue. Even without the HPV vaccine, the pharmaceutical companies have a vested interest in keeping AIDS uncured because AIDS medication = $$$$$ vs. a cure.
Vanelda Bequeesha! Excuse my beauty.[info]wring on March 13th, 2008 09:31 pm (UTC)
I feel the same way about vaccines for the kid. Not to sound like a libertarian or anything.

nvic.org
your name here[info]piedpiper on March 13th, 2008 10:16 pm (UTC)
i just got through a batch of hpv-driven cervical cancer and would give my left tit to have had the chance to get that vaccine. if given the choice of getting cancer or getting a vaccine, i know which one i'd choose. especially if you're going to be promiscuous (which i was.) it's a one-time safety precaution that can protect you and all of your current and future partners, so why not?
K.[info]girlracer on March 14th, 2008 04:10 pm (UTC)
because that shot can killlll you

(8 people have died already of complications)

the testing was really spotty, too
odobenidae[info]odobenidae on March 13th, 2008 10:23 pm (UTC)
please protect yourself
Fuck the math, man, it's worth getting the shot. Two people very near + dear to me have had the following happen to them: HPV, precancerous spots, colposcopy, conization (cone biopsy), and resulting cryosurgery. Extremely expensive and painful!

So that's two people I know very well, which is a pretty high percentage because I don't know very many people at all. I'd give MY left breast to have saved them in the first place!
The Ambidextrous Chicken-Monkey's Spaghetti Feed[info]maria_sputnik on March 13th, 2008 11:17 pm (UTC)
I third (fourth? fifth?) what a lot of people are saying. The vaccine may generally be a scam, but statistically, if you're the person who GETS the cancer-causing HPV, it's totally worth it. I understand that you don't want to support the creepy pharma company, but that's like...not taking your AIDS drugs because those companies are horrible. Which they are.

If I could get that vaccine, I would. I hope my little sisters get it. And I hope you do too.
you know who[info]birds_hum on March 14th, 2008 12:13 am (UTC)
I'll read all of this in a sec, but you are not able to get the vaccine. They will only administer it to pre-sexually active young girls (I believe the age mentioned is 9). It is actually likely you've already been exposed to it and are carrying it. Don't fret -- it's just the most common thing EVAR at this point.
A Bark must have a code: Brain in a Jar[info]chocolatebark on March 14th, 2008 01:29 am (UTC)
?
I have at least one person on my friendslist who is both an adult and has apparently just gotten the vaccine, so either it is possible, or they got the wrong needle.....

It may be more complicated to get, but it looks like it's still possible!

And also there does seem to be work being done on therapeutic vaccines that would be effective for people who were already carrying various strains.
(Anonymous) on March 14th, 2008 02:21 pm (UTC)
Re: ?
word. thanks. i feel like the info changes from year to year. last i knew, it wasn't likely to be able to give to sexually active women. did your friend get the DNA screening first?
kirsten[info]hardrockward on March 14th, 2008 04:46 am (UTC)
this isn't true, i have gotten it. i think they just prefer to give it to young girls. the administrator of shot #1 fucked it up pretty bad though and i'm not sure if without the first shot i can have actually gotten immune.
you know who[info]birds_hum on March 14th, 2008 02:20 pm (UTC)
REALLY? this is honestly news to me. i thought my info was pretty current. well, F. word. thanks for the correction!
billy ray: hope[info]liamtheruiner on March 14th, 2008 12:34 am (UTC)
dudette, you're missing the most important fact of all:

the vaccine is redundant. it was proven in the 1970s that the meters do, in fact, cure cancer of all sorts.
Perry, eh?[info]justuptight on March 14th, 2008 02:50 am (UTC)
gardasil is free through my HMO. every girl should get it, my roomate and my mom have had HPV, and my roomate got precancerous cells from it. it's super easy, strong, and awesome. I'm really for it.
(Anonymous) on March 26th, 2008 11:29 pm (UTC)
thank you
thats it, brother
(Anonymous) on April 5th, 2008 11:32 pm (UTC)
thank you
favorited this one, man
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